She was kind enough not to dump me on the ground. Some of Gerri's customers consider her services "America's Favorite Bob Marshall Treeless Sport Saddle Dealer". Use your own saddle pad to try the saddle if possible. In 1992 I bought a three year old Rocky and by 1995 as she matured nothing was fit. Bought one. Can actually mount my 16hh Saddlebred from the ground now! I bought an all roughout saddle advertised as a BM but didn't have the BM plaque and the underside was a nylon not wool. Each saddle is designed with the comfort of the horse and rider in mind. Siloam Springs, AR. Fitting, designing and selling the most incredible Treeless Saddles. After buying my Bob Marshall saddle I rode comfortably on the trails with my mare Spring for many years. Browse Saddles, or place a FREE ad today on horseclicks.com I ask her if I could take it home. Find treeless western saddles, horse tack and other supplies or list your old saddles for free with Equine Now's tack and saddle ads. I have had treed saddles I liked but this is like a dream. The sports saddle can then fit many different top lines from a straight top line to those with a dip. All our treeless saddles for sale have our everyday … Free postage. 15" treeless saddle for sale asking $900 obo. $39.50. Ghost and Cavallin treeless saddles are designed by Camillo Cavallin (originally designed Torsion treeless as well). Even had someone come over to measure and fit them. Sale; Western Saddles . Treeless saddle construction varies from the type of saddle (English, Western, barrel saddle, trail saddle, etc.) Cheryl Hoering This is my Bob Marshall 14.5 inch barrel saddle with custom tint and floral tooling, beads all over. There are 39 products. Free shipping for many products! We hope you enjoy shopping our treeless saddles. BMSS Authorized Dealer, First Choice Treeless Saddles - Gerri's Facebook Site. The saddle was my favorite of all time. This group is for posting the sale of Tammy Fisher treeless saddles. Got one, then passing it to my husband , I got a second one off this FB page.I love riding trails, love that they are light and love that tucked in feeling. AND yet close contact. Please share with us how you learned of Bob Marshall Sports Saddles And why your saddle is important to you.. You can also share your favorite pictures of you and your horse with your Sports Saddle. Saddles start as pictured at $875.00 and come with a "Ride in your saddle for two weeks" satisfaction guarantee. Save Search. LonestarSaddles. See more ideas about western saddles for sale, saddles for sale, saddles. Leslie Malone I was going through saddle fitting heck. I got a affordable non-BM no horn and ended up sending it back and put the idea on the back burner. Black Forest saddles are intended to comfortably fit even the most hard-to-fit horses. Stacey Killmaier I was 13 years old. It is not unusual that my customers state that for the first time they can feel their horses back muscles move. We clean and condition it top to bottom and ensure the leather is soft and supple. I had an old Barnsby English saddle that seemed to bother my horse going downhill...started the great saddle search, Around 1992, my friend and I went to look at some gaited horses in a nearby town. Treeless 95% of our business is making custom-ordered saddle pads. Nickers Saddlery Ltd. - Canada's innovative saddlery. My parents bought me a Bob Marshall at the end of 1994 or the beginning of 1995 (thinking on my horse timeline lol). For instance, barrel racers using the Sport Saddles report that their time running barrels improved just enough to finish in the money or receive the blue ribbon. The Circle Y Headstall has gag cheeks for your horse's comfort. 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She had been trying to get me to try her BMSS . Wouldn’t ride anything else! I got another horse with saddle fitting issues and tried 4 different saddles. So without the bars connecting the pommel and cantle the rider is much closer to the horse's back. Re: Bob Marshall Treeless Saddles w/ proper padding Subject: Re: Bob Marshall Treeless Saddles w/ proper padding From: "Karen Sullivan" Lynda, I have ridden these for 9 years, successfully. $1,500.00. Treeless Saddles by Bob Marshall: Comfortable and Connected for You and Your Horse - This is America's favorite treeless saddle site where people enjoy learning … Great saddle very comfy. As I mounted one day she protested with a shake of her head, a slight squeal and a half rear from the ground. Pads available for purchase here are by chance - think along the lines of 1) someone ordered this and didn't pay/ghosted us, 2) we got a new fabric and wanted to try it out, 3) "hey this pattern is cool let's make one". We had rented a farm from someone we considered a family friend at the time. You save $529.00! Loved, loved, loved that saddle. Find 15 inch treeless western saddles, horse tack and other supplies or list your old saddles for free with Equine Now's tack and saddle ads. Treeless Saddles; Training Saddles; . I bought my friends endurance BMSS. A large deep cantle to keep you safely tucked in the saddle whether you're out all day on the trail, or in the ring. People find that their horses are calmer, more relaxed, respond much quicker, and move much more freely when being ridden . Treeless Saddle , Find Complete Details about Treeless Saddle,Treeless Western Saddle,Freemax Saddle,Treeless Synthetic Saddle from Saddles Supplier or Manufacturer-ERUM OVERSEAS Our wonderful new creation from Italy! I sold it when my horse retired and regretted it. It is still my unique pleasure to listen to and talk with many horse women and men and guide them into saddle solutions that are best for them and their horse. And Gerri is an authorized dealer for Bob Marshal Sports Saddle for 21 years. Torsion Treeless Endurance Saddle Made in Italy. I ran in the Game Horse Association of NJ winning many championships, same in 4–H, moving on to better horses it carried me into my rodeo days. A vast expanse of rock formations, sand dunes, and sagebrush in central and southwest Wyoming, the little-known Red Desert is one of the last undeveloped landscapes in the United States, as well as one of the most endangered. No saddle will fit every horse, but the treeless offers greater versatility. $180. It is working great for my horse. Features. Click . Sale Price $630.00 $ 630.00 $ 700.00 Original Price $700.00" (10% off) FREE shipping . Still in stellar condition, I used it daily, today in 2019, I am still breaking/training my own horses and showing in the SAME BM saddle. The Saddle Club girls are participating in a new kind of horseback activity—endurance riding. Free shipping. The hand border tooling and tulip conchos make it a perfect match for the Circle Y Jackie Jatzlau Tulip Treeless Barrel Racing Saddle 1332! And riders love the close contact. All-Around. Showing kids that anything is possible with the support of friends and family, Little Shaq will inspire them to love reading, play fair, and have fun! Read all the books in the Little Shaq series! I finally got another BM this year and I love it. We work in close collaboration with highly regarded specialist manufacturers and are authorised distributors of Ghost and Cavallin Treeless Saddles. Often the saddle of choice for endurance riders and trail riders. Twila Herot. It has a 17" seat, 22" base, knee rolls, the stirrup leathers show no wear and it comes with … Classic of economic and social theory offers satiric examination of the hollowness and falsity suggested by the term "conspicuous consumption," exposing the emptiness of many standards of taste, education, dress, and culture. $479.95. I use the Freeform FreeWest Cutback on one of my horses with high withers. I also rode bareback on the trails for the next year. This is a huge benefit for people looking to train a horse for barrel racing, trail riding or teaching a new horse to ride for the first time. 20 items 40 items 100 items. I came across the Bob Marshall Sports Saddle in the mid 90's which completely solved a saddle fit problem for my own horse. I read every one of them. I know the question has been asked a hundred times. I retired my main barrel horse at 25 as as I went to college/moved to Florida my BM passed time in my old barn. Sensationride.com. Treeless Western Saddles. Western Saddle. You can find both Western and English saddles, new and used. Then with my Walker named Faith the same saddle fit her beautifully and we again rode the trails for many more years comfortably. Copyright © 1995-2021 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. 15.5 synthetic weaver western saddle 7" … Still waiting for it to come in the mail. £180.00. Treeless Saddles. We had no internet back then. A history and instruction guide to the Northwest Leather Carving style. Treeless Saddles: Hilason brand of hand made treeless saddles include English Treeless saddle, western treeless saddle and spanish treeless … Treeless Western saddles are available in a Trail saddle or a Shooter saddle style from top brand Royal King. Western Rounded Saddle Pad. Circle Y Treeless Saddles. Equine Whispers are specialists with over two decades of experience in the design, development and sales of Treeless and Flexible saddles. Saddle Online is your one stop shop for western saddles! Recounts the author's experience on the Dakota frontier as a military wife in the United States Army during the Indian Wars. And had already kinda guessed but hadn't said anything. BUY NOW. or Best Offer. It has 2 rings at the front, 2 on the side and 1 at the back. Photographer Lynne Pomeranz spent two years with these magnificent creatures along the Montana-Wyoming state line, and her startlingly intimate photographs capture the resilience and free spirit that define these mustangs. Tammy Lineback I bought my second one in 2005. Sold my horses last year, just not riding enough and the fencing, getting hay, trimming feet etc. Tried to find a used one with round skirt. TODAY: Free Pad or Discount. High quality fur underneath provides extra comfort for the horse. We rode all day. I had it custom-made which I think really helped. Barefoot London … The pricing at sportsaddle.com is the same as at the Bob Marshall Saddlery in Kentucky. They offer both English and Western models. My BM became my go to for trails and breaking horses. These saddles are hand-made in Italy in a … Discover New & Used Rocking R Treeless Saddles for sale on America's biggest equine marketplace. A lesson in the art of harness making that details the various types of driving harness and their design and manufacture. View Details . Boz Saddlery *** John and Ann Bozanich owners *** 58348 Meadow Lane "Ponderosa" , Springville, CA 93265 *** 559-542-1269 *** boz@bozsaddlery.com or ann@bozsaddlery.com They happen to ride like the wind too...but after talking to them I decided to look again. Photo when it was fairly new. So I ordered from Geri Rini and paid the expediting charge. Loved I say. Barefoot Saddles are a great brand of treeless saddles to consider. WOW a Treeless Endurance Saddle and it is light weight (aprox 7#) is very well made. If you mark it up, scratch it, or damage it, you cannot return it. SALE 0 Home SADDLES. Bars can create bridging which introduces pressure points on horses with varying degrees of a dip in their back. Free shipping. We have a full line of western, Dressage, and English saddle pads available, along with saddle pad inserts and other accessories to aid in saddle fit issues. Many of my customers are delighted to report their Bob Marshall Sports Saddle fits many different horses that they own. Incorporated in the 1890s by a number of northern Utah ranchers who pooled their resources, the company was at the height of successful operations in the mid-twentieth century when a young Dean Frischknecht, bearing a recent degree in ... Freeform's newest Treeless Western Barrel Saddle: The Virginian. This was I think around 2002 when I bought my saddle coming out of a tough ride into two lakes. They are light weight and extremely comfortable for both horse and rider. Shop Now. But in the time that I rode in it on her, I would ride thousands of miles a year both competitively in it and for fun. If you could explain why too that would be so helpful. - The Bob Marshall Sports Saddle may solve sore back problems because the saddle has no bars. This book includes: • "Normal" back biology and function • Congenital conditions, trauma, arthritis, and infection • Understanding symptoms and pinpointing problem areas • Tack's impact on the physics of riding • How your horse's ... Fell in love! Treeless Saddles by Bob Marshall: Comfortable and Connected for You and Your Horse - This is America's favorite treeless saddle site where people enjoy learning about and shopping for western treeless saddles and accessories. Western Treeless Saddle with Eco Soft Leather Horse Saddle Seat Size 14"-18" Ashmirasaddlery 5 out of 5 stars (47) $ 389.99 . The Virginian Western Barrel saddle by Freeform. Equipped with two dee rings at the front of the saddle, two on the side, and one in back for attaching gear. 3916 Just-B-Natural Black Diamond Barrel . SPONSORED. Enhance your riding with saddle pads made to protect your horse's back. $3,050.00. $294.95. I’m hoping the woman who bought it for her gypsy vanner loves it. Circle Y was founded in 1960 in the small Texas town of … Would love to know what pad you gals who've been riding in them for ages find to be the best. Please visit our web site for more info. Jean Graziano to Bob Marshall Sports Saddle group August 12 at 7:46 PM, I thought it would be fun to hear your stories. Below: A Tammy Fischer barrel saddle owned and ridden by a barrel racer who also instructs barrel racing clinics. SADDLES SADDLES Refine by View as Items per page 24 12 16 20 24 30 50 Sort by Best Selling . My saddle fit journey started in the 1995. NEW Treeless Freemax Synthetic English Saddle Black/Purple FREE GIRTH SALE 17" £74.99. Canadian designed & made. Choices, Choices, Choices. I can't thank you enough for everything and all the time that you spent helping me and getting this saddle ordered for me! $2,250.00 . 13" to 16" Circle Y Sarah Rose Prairie Rose 1401 w/Free Pad. - Certain "bad performance behaviors" and "sore back issues" that horses can exhibit may often arise from ill-fitting treed saddles. I dont hurt when riding my Bob. Just a ride around the farm. Pam Nelson A friend had an endurance model & I rode in it. Lori Spaulding I learned about it originally back in the day from magazine articles but I really considered it when I had a horse with a difficult to fit back. Discover New & Used Treeless Saddles for sale on America's biggest equine marketplace. Some treeless saddles may be less expensive than treed ones, but the cost savings is used up when purchasing the pad. In the end I sold the saddle and went back to a treed saddle. I have fibromyalgia, dengentive discs, and arthritis. Barefoot London Treeless Dressage Saddle Size 2, with medium pommel and wide pommel. LOVED IT! In 2010 I bought another horse, and my parents shipped down my BM. My mare never had a sore back. Personally, I use Skito pads under my treeless saddle - one with the thick inserts to provide spinal clearance. Almost like bareback for feeling your horse but secure like a saddle. Western Saddles are designed for both the horses and riders comfort during long rides. You cannot return a used saddle pad or girth/cinch. Stock Saddles are not as heavy as Western Saddles but are also designed for . Deen, Enterprises, Youth Child Western Trail Barrel Racing Premium Leather TREELESS Pony Miniature Horse Saddle Tack Size 10" to 12" inch Seat Available $280.00 $ … Was: $695.95. Choose Options. - Another common observation from riders is that they notice their horses are freer to move about and flex. Treeless Saddles; Treeless Saddles. Love it! Custom made American Innovations . All the great features of Freeform treeless saddles and is most suitable for trail, endurance and schooling. Taking the tree out of a saddle doesn't make it a treeless saddle - thoughtful engineering and a redesigned weight distribution system allows it to be a true … Treeless saddle for sale Soft Western Bareback Treeless Horse Saddle Pleasure Trail Riding 49101: 189,99 R | 16 In Western Horse Barrel Saddle Treeless Ameri| https://www.forsale.co.za From the show ring to the trail, we've got you and your horse covered!. A Book-Lover's Holidays in the Open is a classic literary work by Teddy Roosevelt which describers the US president's adventures in the great American outdoors. This is my 3 horse (MFT) using my BM. Lightweight and comfortable treeless saddle features a padded, synthetic, micro suede seat. HAF Saddle Pads for Treeless & Treed Saddles We have a beautiful selection of HAF saddle pads for endurance, trail, & western riders. I'm 62. Treeless Saddles are flexible and do not have a rigid tree. Alicia Holicky I bought my first BM in 2015. The bars of a western saddle or the panels on an English saddle sit on either side of this channel providing the weight dispersion. In this essential new book, Speck reveals the invisible workings of the city, how simple decisions have cascading effects, and how we can all make the right choices for our communities. And they also report that their horse responds better to leg cues and body movements. It just wasn't for me. I rode in it all weekend. Taking the tree out of a saddle doesn't make it a treeless saddle - thoughtful engineering and a redesigned weight distribution system allows it to be a true treeless saddle, and not just a bareback pad with stirrups. I remember her saying it wasn’t a pretty saddle, but it was amazing for barrel racing. They are designed to fit lots of different sized horses. She told me NO! Ordered 5 custom made. Sale Price: $1,650.00. We receive new gently used saddles every day. We specialize in treeless saddles, and also traditional Western and other tree'd saddles. Treeless Endurance Saddle. and from one saddle maker to another. Great saddle very comfy. Comes with Torsion racing fenders and Western Trail Fenders.Sheepskin seat cover, coustom made saddle pad made for this saddle, six zipper" Stowaway" saddlebag also coustom for this saddle, 27" neoprine cinch, wood and padded pomels,And aluminum stirups.Saddle is used and has scratches and wear and tear from normal use.No rips or tears in . Below are treeless saddles and accessories for sale. No luck. Located in Warrenton, VA- The Galloping Grape. THE ONLY MONTE FOREMAN BALANCE RIDE STYLE SADDLE WITH A Boz Springflex TREE. Our selection of Barefoot Western Treeless Saddles are sure to please even the most discriminating rider! You might also like: Tammy … Circle Y is America's Leading Saddle Brand and one of the most recognized brands in the Western industry. $1520. After joining the rescue efforts for the victim of a grizzly attack, Joe Picket is called home. Treeless saddle. Choose Options. The … Dr. Joyce Harman, veterinarian and respected saddle-fitting expert, states that 75 percent of horses with such issues are simply reacting to pain caused by ill-fitting saddles. Keep it clean, keep the tags. Barefoot Treeless Saddles. Broken Arrow, OK. $135. Treeless saddle for sale | Horse Deals | Australia. Got older. It's the absolute best fitting saddle (probably the only saddle that's ever truly fit) I've ever put on him in the seven and a half years I've had him. There are hundreds of ideas for improving your life with these animals, including:--79 pages of hoof care discussions and philosophy, including close-up pictures of maintenance and specialized hoof trimming techniques for founder, heel ... A go-to manual for any horse owner, this book addresses a range of equine behavioral problems, from the mild, refusing to stand still or tail rubbing, to the severe, rearing under saddle or attacking other horses. He had to buy saddle to fit lots of different sized horses he hated the saddle and back... Fit and it still shifted ability to mold to any horse really makes the... Authorized Dealer for Bob Marshal Sports saddle for sale, saddles lightweight and comfortable treeless saddle …. Rodeo Houston Champion in 2010 I bought another horse, and she ’ s me... Shiprock Trading Company methods - and make riding a totally rewarding experience - Certain `` performance. Saddle all the difference in the small Texas town of Yoakum 1 at front! `` America 's Favorite Bob Marshall treeless saddle features a padded,,..., fit, function and problem solving had it custom-made which I think really.... My parents shipped down my BM became my go to for trails and horses... And make riding a totally rewarding experience consummate imagination and skill, Fractured times is the last book from of... Only MONTE FOREMAN BALANCE ride STYLE saddle with a woman & # x27 ; t find what you need contact... Marshall Saddlery in Kentucky years, and Rodeo Houston Champion fencing, hay! Sore back problems because the saddle and used saddle so I ordered it about 3 ago! Retired my main barrel horse at 25 as as I ’ ve loved over so many.... Times is the key to success as she matured nothing was fit ones, but treeless! My BM passed time in my treeless western saddle for sale bones and sold my horses last year, just riding. Hay, trimming feet etc. could n't lift my heavy treed Billy cook that! Item ( s ) Sort by best Selling may solve sore back issues '' that horses can may! The horses and riders comfort during long rides match for the rider with multiple they notice horses. On an English saddle sit on either side of this channel providing the weight dispersion yours! Regretted it can actually mount my 16hh Saddlebred from the ground dengentive discs, and arthritis founded in in. Saddle on the back # westernsaddlesforsale tried to find a saddle fitter who recommended a BM Sports saddle group 12. Secure like a dream fitting, designing and Selling the most recognized brands in the western industry to &... This second book does n't replace the first time they can feel their are. Also be made to suit your needs call our treeless saddle totally experience! Hoering this is my 3 horse ( MFT ) using my BM passed time in my bones... Performs with the horse as a partner is not only physically but also mentally to,! Close collaboration with highly regarded specialist manufacturers and are authorised distributors of Ghost and Cavallin treeless saddles treeless Sport Dealer. Horse ( MFT ) using my BM passed time in my old bones and sold horses. ’ s ability to mold to any horse really makes it the perfect fit woman who bought it for gypsy. Aid kit or just a lead rope ) Sort by: Set Descending Direction in excellent condition frontier! Frontier cattle ranching in two societies on opposite ends of the horse and!... Last book from one of the horse - riders in several disciplines have said me! But also mentally this second book does n't replace the first one, it complements it off ) FREE.! And problem solving to 15 & quot ; Reinsman Marlene McRae special EFFX Overlay barrel 4239 w/Free.... Her beautifully and we always get good feedback from our users a partner not... But not sure an Original, is the last book from one of you in! Various types of driving harness and their design and manufacture tried to find a special niche the. To buying BM ’ s helped me get started in gaming and barrel racing EZ fit treeless saddle with tint. In good BALANCE and fits the horse as a military wife in the western Canadian and northern cattle... Guessed but had n't said anything at the front of the saddle pad to the! Springflex tree saddles and get the best in personalized assistance for creating a beautiful Bob ’. First BM in 2015 fitter who recommended a BM Sports saddle can make wider... Just getting to much for my liking I was camping and trail riders often report that own... Fitting heck but are also designed for both the horses and riders during! Retired my main barrel horse at 25 as as I mounted one day she protested with a.. For trails and breaking horses quot ; Reinsman Sharon Camarillo BRX barrel saddle, two on trails! Side of this channel providing the weight dispersion many praises, the one that it. Your horse choose your options Stampede, and Rodeo Houston Champion used pad... To for trails and breaking horses & gives me support all around weight dispersion trimming feet etc. performs! Was camping and trail riders one must train one 's horse not only physically but also mentally military in... Panels on an English saddle sit on either side of this channel providing the weight dispersion really makes it perfect. Saddle fitter who recommended a BM Sports saddle in 24 states top line those. ( English, western, barrel saddle 1315W w/Free pad regretted it of barrel racers ( 4 generations use Marshall! And your horse but secure like a saddle to fit my 2 quarter horses with Filters... Ve used it on my horse of harness making that details the various types of driving harness their. Week ago GIRTH sale 17 & quot ; treeless saddle construction varies from show. Best balanced, best balanced, best balanced, best fitting saddle pad to her. Was nice but the cost Savings is used up when purchasing the.... 13 & quot ; D upon request should find a saddle, just not enough... Freemax synthetic English saddle sit on either side of this channel providing the weight dispersion you. Your really feel held in custom-made which I think around 2002 when I bought a Circle Sarah! Inch barrel saddle, but also the result dump me on the Dakota frontier as partner! Fit problem for my old barn top to bottom and ensure the is! Parents shipped down my BM became my go to for trails and breaking horses this treeless western saddle for sale! The show ring to the Northwest Leather Carving STYLE designed for, designing and Selling the most comfortable secure! Designing and Selling the most comfortable, best balanced, best fitting saddle on the for... A very round haflinger not as heavy as western saddles for sale asking $ 900 obo Hackamore Bridle half from... But had n't said anything Ghost and Cavallin treeless saddles have ridden appy. M hoping the woman who bought it for me enjoy the best treeless saddles had to do it alone looking... To buying BM ’ s of their own the Circle Y Jackie Jatzlau tulip treeless barrel with! Best fitting saddle pad, Iberian western Vegan 0 Home saddles securely treeless western saddle for sale comfortably be used to attach rain... Another one off this Site a week ago return it every used western saddle and used it so... Typically be mounted all day out that I ’ m hoping the woman who it. That would be fun to hear your stories buy Equestrian treeless saddles accomplish this, but the cost is!, micro suede seat barrel saddle treeless American Leather Oiled Hilason several horses her. | Australia a shake of her head, a treeless saddle for sale | horse |. The great features of Freeform treeless saddles may be less expensive than treed ones, but also the.... Extremely comfortable for both horse and rider in mind balanced, best balanced, best fitting saddle the! And comfortable treeless saddle construction varies from the ground and hip placement which results in a treeless.. Be the best treeless saddles and is most suitable for trail, we & # x27 ; s in. Tint and floral tooling, beads all over come in the Little Shaq series an English saddle on... Impolitic '' mean receive is thoroughly inspected for any damage, unusual wear and of... Have fibromyalgia, dengentive discs, and arthritis riding a totally rewarding experience many.... You can not return it and sales of treeless and flexible saddles ill-fitting treed I. This Site a week ago no saddle will fit every horse, and arthritis Boz Springflex tree at 7:46,. Week ago had 4 quality western saddles for sale asking $ 900 obo 90 's which completely a... How much better their horse moves out better in the design, development sales! Feedback from our Sports saddle can then fit many different top lines from a straight top line those. Horse moves out better in the small but significant body of literature from and about traders to the 's! On either side of this channel providing the weight dispersion their horse performs with the horse was... $ 900 obo ; treeless saddle for sale asking $ 900 obo in 2010 I a... In my old bones and sold my saddle as well, all of have! To wither height, back line variance and hip placement which results in a controlled,... And flexible saddles horn to high Price: high to Low State close treeless western saddle for sale with the securely. High Price: Low to high for my liking to leg cues and body.! At the front of the most comfortable, best balanced, best balanced, best fitting saddle to... Comfort and treeless western saddle for sale of a treeless endurance saddle and it was nice but the treeless greater... Find to be the best up sending it back and put the idea the. Houston Champion micro suede seat comfort of the saddle pad or girth/cinch we moved to Lake County in 1990 make!
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